ESM in Harpoon

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ESM in Harpoon

Postby JoeDredd » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:24 pm

Hi fellas,

I posted this on the Matrix Games Harpoon forum, but haven't had any bites so far, so I thought I'd repost it here in hope of an answer:

I've been trying out the different versions of Harpoon after nabbing the "Ultimate Edition", and the ESM functionality of 9.3.4 and 9.11 is confusing me. In 9.3.4, the red outlines give me an approximate direction and distance, usually in a rough triangle extending out from my ships. In 9.11, however, I get all sorts of bizarre shapes, often extending in multiple directions at once for a single contact. Which is the more realistic of the two? It is my understanding that 9.11 is the most sophisticated version of Harpoon, but I can't understand how ESM can be useful when detections are so ambiguous.

Here's a screenshot from 9.3.4 to demonstrate.
Image

And one from 9.11 for comparison.
Image
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Re: ESM in Harpoon

Postby Herman Hum » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:10 pm

If you are looking for Harpoon answers, you have come to the right place. :)

Firstly, allow me to clarify a few things so that viewers may not be confused. The version numbers to which you refer (9.3.4 and 9.11) are not commonly associated with Harpoon. I think you may have jumbled them. There are three versions of Harpoon 3 available within the Harpoon Ultimate Edition bundle of games: H3 (v3.6), ANW (v3.9.4), and HUE (v3.10) For the purposes of this discussion, I will use these names and numbers. The HUE v3.10 is the last version released, but that does not necessarily equate to most sophisticated or 'best'. You can judge for yourself.

The red outlines to which you refer are called [UZ] Uncertainty Zones. The game engine has detected a contact and estimates it within the UZ. I will use a simple example from the PlayersDB and compare the three game versions. I use the PlayersDB because it is consistent throughout all three versions. Only the PlayersDB is available for each of the three versions. You can follow along with the example. The scenario I use is The Third Temple (3Temple.SCN). It can be found in the Mediterranean battleset. If you have yet to install it, you can find it:

Harpoon HUE users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon HUE Library

Harpoon ANW users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library

I ran the same scenario in each of the versions and took screenshots at the 3.5 minute mark and at the 10 minute mark to show the differences.

Here is the scenario after 3.5mins in H3:
Image

Here is the scenario after 10mins in H3:
Image

Here is the scenario after 3.5mins in ANW:
Image

Here is the scenario after 10mins in ANW:
Image

Here is the scenario after 3.5mins in HUE:
Image

Here is the scenario after 10mins in HUE:
Image

Notice how the H3 game is able to clarify the ESM contacts easily after a few minutes. The game engine shows you an uncertainty zone with a general bearing, but not very much range data. IMO, this is how the game should work and is one of the primary reasons I continue to play H3 and avoid ANW and HUE whenever possible.

In ANW and HUE, notice how the UZs are virtually identical between the 3.5 minute mark and the 10 minute mark. The game is unable to clarify and reduce the size of the UZones. This was reported to the developers, but they claimed that no changes were made to the ESM calculations between the game versions. You can judge for yourself the veracity of this claim. The PlayersDB uses the exact same sensor values between the various game versions. We do this in order to maintain a baseline of performance and to remain consistent. Players can compare a scenario between the various game versions and decide for themselves which is best for them. Logically, if the developers are to be believed, there should be little difference between the ESM detections in each game version. This is simply not the case.

HUE v3.10 also includes a database editor so you can modify the values if you do not agree with them. (The DB editor only works for the HUE version.) You are not forced to accept anyone else's perception of reality. The UZs can also be totally eliminated by modifying the database and removing the uncertainty variables altogether. I do not believe that is the best solution. Instead, I just play scenarios in H3 and avoid the other versions unless I absolutely cannot do so (i.e. multi-player is only possible in ANW).

I hope that this explanation is sufficiently clear. Let me know if you want to try the multi-player.
Attachments
HUE 10min.gif
HUE 10min.gif (39.98 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
HUE 3.5min.gif
HUE 3.5min.gif (32.77 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
ANW 10min.gif
ANW 10min.gif (33.2 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
ANW 3.5min.gif
ANW 3.5min.gif (30.17 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
H3 10min.gif
H3 10min.gif (27.09 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
H3 3.5min.gif
H3 3.5min.gif (25.76 KiB) Viewed 13585 times
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Re: ESM in Harpoon

Postby JoeDredd » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:26 pm

Hi Herman,

Thanks very much for the thorough reply - I'm not sure what I was thinking of when I put down those version numbers :oops: . There's definitely some bizarre stuff going on in HUE at the ten minute mark which ANW seems to avoid, but both look too cluttered to be useful in large engagements. I'll follow your example and stick with 3.6.3 while I get to grips with the game, along with the PlayersDB.
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Re: ESM in Harpoon

Postby Herman Hum » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:30 pm

Glad that I could be of assistance.
Feel free to spread the knowledge to others.
If you are asking a question, there are probably 10 others too shy or timid to ask the same.
ScenShare Guidelines:

1) Enjoy creating it
2) Enjoy playing it
3) Enjoy sharing it
4) Enjoy helping others create them

The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

Harpoon3 Frequently Asked Questions
Herman Hum
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